gun laws in wod

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Post  Ryder Silverborne on Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:38 am

It appears the gun laws are harsher than real life. Breach shot guns only?
Ryder Silverborne
Ryder Silverborne

Location : A dream within a dream

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Post  Jeremy Kenning on Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:41 am


To be honest the enhanced firearms restrictions are "interesting" but it's the outright bans on melee weapons, which are currently uncontrolled with a few minor exceptions, and on armour, which is completely uncontrolled, that I think are the biggest mistake.

For everyone who wants to talk about the actual firearms regulations in New Zealand today as a reference point the clearest and simplest explanation can be found here:
The details of arms controls as they exist in New Zealand today are here:
The details of offensive weapons and their controls under New Zealand law today:
This is useful for it's definition of offensive weapons in the eyes of NZ Customs:

I'm personally of the same opinion as Chris, the current New Zealand law is already among the most restrictive on the planet and is well known and well expressed.  I'd prefer to see that continued into the game unaltered, especially as this is the default assumption in nWoD generally (as shown in Armoury and the legal section therein).

Otherwise I'd like to see clarification on ammunition types and the restrictions on those, also what restrictions exist on armourers tools and equipment (personal loading and modification equipment etc).

Lastly, this is the kind of conversation which is likely to get heated especially as it represents a significant change to the assumptions on which many of us have based characters.

If everyone can please be careful not to get personal, but also not to take offense at honest and robust debate, then it will help things stay constructive.  Let's all remember that we can disagree and discuss without being unpleasant.

Last edited by John Dale on Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:13 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : added further information)

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Post  Odin "Al" Allfather on Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:05 pm

I am also interested in seeing a discussion open up about this change.

Personally I agree that while interesting these changes are perhaps a touch restrictive and would prefer something bearing a closer resemblance to real life laws. The harsh restrictions on melee weapons in particular seem very restrictive and potentially interferes with verisimilitude. It isn't tremendously difficult to jury-rig some kind of lethal weapon from objects that are legal, or to just take a kitchen knife if one intended harm, so it seems odd of the government to put the required effort into banning and policing weapons designed for fighting, which are reasonably rare in mundane fights and murder cases.
Odin "Al" Allfather

Location : New Zealand

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Post  Olaf White on Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:44 pm

The ban on armour is... somewhat confusing. There's a massive uptick in violent assaults, so we've made it illegal to wear protective gear? How does this help? It's not like it'll particularly help against a policeman shooting you; it might keep you alive, but bullets will still crack ribs and put you down hard just hitting center of mass. And any citizen trying to fight back against a criminal would be breaking the law on 'no weapons' so it's not going to help there, either.

Particularly given the legitimate applications; motorcyclists in particular have a very good reason for clothing that would qualify as armoured (because a crash on a motorbike is... quite, quite dangerous; a good chunk of modern motorcycle protective gear IRL includes Kevlar).

Restrictions on medieval-style armour and the rest of the higher end I'm going to shrug about.

The weapons ban is... I'm in favour of it, assuming I can tweak a little to become the Ogre Kith that makes improvised weapons out of random junk. Twisted Evil Very Happy (Although the question of whether things like sledgehammers, fire-axes, chainsaws, butcher's knives, etc. can be legitimately owned/carried around does then come up, but I think it was clarified on the FB thread that you're fine so long as it clearly has a non-combative use?)

(also, one would assume that the police at least can legally carry firearms in the operations of their duties, as can on-duty military personnel... totalitarian dictatorships don't tend to disarm the agents of the state.)

Again, I think "the law is sliding towards totalitarian" makes sense, we just need to look at the corner cases (and, on the gripping hand, even the best armor in NWoD rules is... underwhelming.)

Olaf White

Age : 33

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Post  Jeremy Kenning on Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:03 am

As we are not permitted to discuss the real world, or use any evidence from the real world to support arguments, I'll move on from that aspect of the conversation.

So I'll instead ask for some more detail, clarification and specifics regarding the House Rules on certain Weapons in NZ so that we can discuss those directly.

Rather than create a lot of posts I'll just pull together everything I've seen asked on FB, privately or here and put it all together in one place for the STs to pick through at leisure.

Autumn wrote:a Hunting License, which allows for the legal ownership of

* bolt-action hunting rifles
* breech-action shotguns
* bows or crossbows
* and hunting knives
If this can be obtained with only New Identity at 2 dots it is clearly not a complex application.  It could not require a criminal record check, nor any other background details otherwise a base New Identity would simply not hold up.  What IS required?

Can we please have some details on how one obtains such a license, how long they are issued for, what kind of ID is issued for them, what checks are in place, what regulations surround the storage and transport of such weapons and what controls there are for ammunition they use?

Are individual weapons licensed, or are owners licensed?  If individual weapons are licensed then what additional charge is there for multiple licenses?  Are there any restrictions on the ownership of multiple weapons?

Are there any further restrictions in place with regard to the bolt-action rifles and breech-action shotguns permitted under such a license?

Are breach-action rifles permitted under such a license?

Are lever action rifles permitted under such a license?

Are pump action rifles permitted under such a license?

Are breech-action shotguns with an internal magazine permitted under such a license?

Can are non-licensed individuals permitted to make lawful use of such weapons while under the supervision of a licensed individual?

Are minors permitted to obtain such a license, or make use of such weapons while under the supervision of a licensed individual?

What is the legal definition of a "hunting knife" under this legislation?

Are other kinds of knives, such as fishing or survival knives, also controlled?

What level of the Resources merit will be required to pay for the costs of such a license?

How do such licenses function for groups (archery ranges, gun clubs or firing ranges)?

Autumn wrote:Collector's License, which requires a much more in-depth background check, a face-to-face discussion with the police about each purchase, and regular inspections of your property and possessions. This license may allow for both working weapons and blunted or decommissioned weapons, depending on your intentions and how much the authorities trust you.
How does the law cover sports equipment which can also be used as a weapon (Baseball Bats etc.)?

What legal restrictions are placed on weapon ownership under the Collector's License?

What level of the Resources merit will be required to pay for the necessary weapons security at the property?

Can you literally have ANYTHING as long as the local arms officer signs off on it?

What kinds of groups have been granted Collector's Licenses already within the setting?

How do such licenses function for groups?

What restrictions are in place regarding the use of weapons which require a Collector's License to legally own?

Autumn wrote:There is also no legal way to obtain gear or accessories such as kevlar vests.
Under what legislation has "gear or accessories" been controlled?

What is the definition of "gear"?

What is the definition of "accessories"?

If Kevlar vests are illegal then what about reinforced clothing, such as motorcycle jackets, which uses Kevlar?

What about sporting protective gear and helmets which, likewise, use Kevlar?

Does the legislation cover other kinds of body armour, tempered steel inserts, ceramic inserts etc?

Has archaic armour likewise been made illegal?

If not then are recreations of archaic armours with modern materials legal?

Are such items illegal to buy and sell as well as to own?

Are such items illegal to manufacture?

Autumn wrote:The subsequent investigation will likely turn up your lack of adequate ID unless your New Identity merit is at 4 dots.
Can this be taken as a guideline indication of the necessary level of the New Identity merit required to get through any arrest or investigation by the New Zealand police?

Other related questions:

What restrictions are there, if any, on muzzle-loading or black powder firearms?

What restrictions are there, if any, on airguns?

What restrictions are there, if any, on Paint Ball airguns?

How do the legal exemptions for tools and household items function under the law?

How does the law view decommissioned weapons?

Are there any legal restrictions on replica, toy, LARP-safe or fake weapons?

Last edited by John Dale on Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added additional questions)

Jeremy Kenning

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